MLB

MLB Fans Share Heated Arguments Of Baseball’s Biggest Controversies

Darren - April 20, 2021
MLB

MLB Fans Share Heated Arguments Of Baseball’s Biggest Controversies

Darren - April 20, 2021
Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

21. Jose Canseco

“There is only one steroid user that belongs in the baseball hall of fame: Jose Canseco,” PopeAlGore argued. “Hear me out. You don’t put Jose in as a player. You put him in as a “contributor to the game”. His plaque should barely mention that he played – he should be even wearing a baseball cap – instead, it should exclusively talk about his book that outlined and brought to light all the cheating that was going on in baseball.”

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

Canseco is one of the most colorful athletes in the world. His book rocked MLB because it revealed the extent of doping league-wide. Meanwhile, he was shameless about his own PED use. The four-time Silver Slugger award winner was a prolific home-run hitter and later became a combat sports athlete. However, not many fans will agree he should be allowed into Cooperstown.

Mandatory Credit: Houston Chronicle

20. Monstars

“Sure, the steroid era was a huge ordeal, but it was never a full team conspiring together to create baseball’s version of the Monstars,” Nervette said. “The league knew that the Astros were cheating and allowed it to happen. The league knew that if this ever came to light there would be a huge uproar whether they uncovered it then vs. now.” Overall, the Astros’ scandal was an open secret.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

However, the difference between it and the Steroid Era was the fact that ironically the latter was an even playing field. This was because players from every team, all across the league, were doping. But when it came to Houston, only one team had the advantage. The fact that MLB enabled them through inaction embarrassed many fans and turned some away from the sport.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

19. Innocence

“I miss the innocence I had while watching the game in that era,” mike_rotch22 remarked. “Being able to watch the home run chase of ’98, especially getting to see a couple of Big Mac’s home runs in person, really drew me closer to the game. It drew my dad and me a lot closer as we watched as many home runs as we could. After the strike in ’94, the home run chase made baseball fun again.”

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

Mark McGwire was one of the most lambasted athletes involved in the Steroid Era but he was a massive fan favorite at the time. As the Reddit user note, this was ironically a golden age for baseball because it created so many exciting moments for fans. Furthermore, there was a sense of romanticism about this era while it was in progress. Fans don’t experience that same joy these days.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

18. Technicalities

Despite the excitement of the Steroid Era, many fans firmly believe that it created a false perception of what baseball really is. Purists think that it damaged the sport because casual fans lost an appreciation of the technical aspects of the game. It also reduced baseball to raw power as opposed to tactical brilliance and innovation on behalf of the coaches and athletes.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

“I think an overabundance of power-hitting removes a lot of depth from the game,” socsa said. “Baseball is such a cool sport because it is a unique combination of individual match-ups, team play, and game management. When everyone is just hitting dingers all the time, the team play and game management aspects become diminished.” To sum up, this isn’t wrong but it definitely doesn’t help the game’s mainstream appeal.

Mandatory Credit: Bleacher Report

17. Not Sorry

One of the most dramatic exclusions from the Hall of Fame came in 1989 after MLB permanently banned Pete Rose. The Cincinnati Reds manager was one of the league’s greatest ever players but bet on the results of his own team. The 17-time All-Star set an obscene number of records as a player, so many fans think his exclusion is petty and a waste of time.

Mandatory Credit: NBC Sports

However, not all fans agree with this. Some believe that his personality and antics outside of the sport also played a part. MikeyA6790 argued: “I don’t think it’s a HUGE deal but he hasn’t apologized and continues to be a s****y person. I think he had charges for tax evasion and came out with a book admitting what he did after denying for like 15 years.” This is all true but it doesn’t convince everybody.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

16. Not A Main Cause?

“In my opinion, the prevalent steroid use of the 90s and early 00s was not the main cause of the explosion in offense,” DaHalfAsian argued. “I think it had more to do with a restricted strike zone and changes made to the ball. At any rate, I’d prefer a game that’s somewhere between what we had then and what we have now. Pitching is too dominant at the moment, thanks to the increased prevalence of the low strike.”

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

This is a compelling argument but ultimately it’s a little futile when what happened after the steroid era is taken into account. Yes, there were rule changes that an impact on play, but the sudden rise in offense clearly correlated with the prevalence of steroid use at the time. The drop-off in home runs in the present era clearly shows that steroids had an impact.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

15. Black Sox Scandal

“Ever since the Black Sox scandal of 1919, professional baseball has been trying to make sure there is no doubt in the credibility of the players/games. It’s also why they are particularly and historically so sensitive about betting in baseball as compared to say PEDs,” feintise noted. This is an excellent point because gambling was the bane of baseball before PEDs were ever in the picture.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

The early twentieth century in particular saw an obscene number of games thrown because of dubious bets. Indeed, after the Black Sox scandal, baseball saw its first commissioner appointed to ensure the sanctity of the sport. Of course, throughout history commissioners have not proved to be infallible. But this did provide more of a structure to the sport.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

14. Hedge Those Bets

Gambling and sports have a dubious relationship because so many things can go wrong. A lot of fans suffer from gambling addiction while many athletes suffer suspensions after betting on the outcome of their own games. Pete Rose is one of the most high-profile casualties of this but nobody proved that he bet against his own team. Furthermore, his record as a player builds his own case.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

“The problem I see is that if he bet on the Reds losing he could influence that outcome, but if he bet on them winning that all comes down to skill and talent, and as far as we know he only bet on the Reds winning,” textpoops argued. However, MLB has a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to players and coaches betting on their own teams. Fans might not like it but Rose is out.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

13. Not Subtle

One fan had an interesting point to make about the Astros’ method of cheating. “Given how common hand signs are in baseball you’d think they could work out something more subtle than banging on a trash can. Heck, even just a plant in the stands where they’re clearly visible who holds up a distinctive “Go Team!” sign on non-fastballs would be less likely to turn up in broadcast recordings,” CeramicLicker noted.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

This is an excellent observation because it shows how brazen they really were. It also proves that MLB simply chose not to notice Houston’s cheating until pressure forced them to engage with it. The pathetic punishment that they dished out to the franchise also disenfranchised fans because they felt that players should have also been hit with suspensions and sanctions.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

12. Weak Punishment

Ironically, MLB’s reaction to the Astros’ cheating prompted a response from Pete Rose. He was furious because he believed that their punishment was disproportionate considering the magnitude of their offense. Meanwhile, they hit him with a lifetime ban and tarnished his legacy because he personally gambled on some games. Some fans agree that he certainly has a point.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

Wiseoldprogrammer said: “I’m in the camp that Pete Rose should never be a part of baseball again. Betting on games you are involved in is a huge no-no. With that said, I do agree with him here. MLB should’ve dropped the hammer on them. Instead, it’s a weak punishment that does nothing but drives fans away from the game.” At the end of the day, this helped nobody.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

11. Economic Impact

“Cheating in MLB can have economic impacts, believe it or not, on private citizens,” eidetic noted.“Not hard to believe, when you have teams building stadiums that are partially funded by taxes. (I’m not saying whether that is right or wrong, that’s a whole different debate).” This is an interesting argument because it does raise the bigger picture of how big franchises influence their communities.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

Many NFL franchises have a history of bullying their local governments into building the teams new stadiums. While MLB teams don’t move around as much in recent history, they can still coerce the relevant authorities into building new infrastructure from tax money. This directly affects fans because, at the end of the day, it is their money. Success on the field is guaranteed more likely to yield results.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

10. Think of the Children

“Say steroids became legal,” Rlight wrote. “Then it would be almost necessary in order for anyone to compete. Now we have tons of players doing steroids in the MLB. Well, how are you going to move up from the minor leagues without that boost? So now we’ll have tons of players in the minor leagues doing steroids. Well, how do you get into the minor leagues? Now we have high school kids trying to get their hands on steroids so they can play ball.”

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

Some fans believe that MLB and other sports organizations should simply accept the use of PEDs. They argue what is the difference between taking EPO and a protein shake if everybody is doing it? But the problem is that this will definitely impact children as their bodies are developing. Unfortunately, everybody will try to get an advantage by altering their internal chemistry.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

9. Steroid League

Other fans think that it is naive to try and ban PEDs outright. Some suggest that there should be an alternative league where players can juice themselves to the gills and play. This is unlikely to happen because it would require serious financial backing but it could prove more entertaining for casual viewers because of the increased offense. At the end of the day, adults should be able to do what they want with their bodies.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

Imasunbear made this argument: “If people don’t want to support a league where all the players use steroids, they should be able to, if the league arises, pay to watch a league with more strict rules on drug use. If people want to watch a game where every other hit is a home run, they should be able to pay to watch a game run by the league that allows steroid use.”

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

8. Nostalgia Trip

“I’m a San Francisco Giants fan, and I became a San Francisco Giants fan because Barry Bonds was hitting 73 home runs,” MohnJarston said. “So yes, I absolutely miss the absurd offensive production of that era.” Since then the mantra is that 40 is the new 50. While several players continue to break through that barrier and achieve high returns, the reality is that this is true.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

Furthermore, when Bonds smashed 73 home runs, he was in his late 30s. This simply shouldn’t have been achievable without steroids because his body required recovery time. But for fans who came to the sport during the Steroid Era, there is definitely a certain romance about the excitement of this period. They shrug their shoulders when people say it was cheating because that’s just how baseball was.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

7. Leave Them Out

As we have explained, there are two trains of thought when it comes to steroid use and the Hall of Fame. First of all, some fans believe that it’s pointless to exclude a generation of players considering the lack of regulation and the commonality of PED use. But others firmly think that anybody who took PEDs definitely cheated and nobody should consider them for enshrinement in the Hall.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

“Do I think there are players in the hall that did steroids or something like them?” theseeker323 asked. “Yes. If they are found out to have done it, then they should not get in. If they can get away with it without being caught, then they can get in. You just cannot let someone in the hall who is publicly known to have cheated.” Technically this would permit Bonds to enter because technically nobody has confirmed his PED use.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

6. Recreational Drugs

“To be fair, it was perfectly fine for players in the 70s and 80s to pop greenies before games,” Acascio19 argued. “There are interviews where guys said they literally had them in a bowl in the locker room. The steroid era happened while it wasn’t “illegal” by baseball terms so if we’re gonna come down hard on them why not be hard on the old-timers too?”

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

This is an excellent observation and definitely opens up a Pandora’s Box for MLB executives and Cooperstown. There’s no doubt that there was rampant recreational drug use throughout the 1960s and ”70s, so why shouldn’t those players receive retrospective punishments? Or else, Cooperstown could say that everybody who played before the end of the Steroid Era is exempt from PED-related exclusions.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

5. What’s the Point?

The likes of Barry Bonds, Pete Rose, Roger Clemens, Mark McGwire, and Alex Rodriguez were some of the most exciting and successful players of their respective eras. But none of them are eligible for enshrinement in the Hall of Fame. When fans look at the record books, this does create issues because lesser athletes are in there. How can the HoF have a players’ section without the best players?

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

Siicktiits made the case: “Barry, Roger, and Arod all need to be in the h.o.f. and if they let them in, which they should, then Pete needs to get in as well… Can’t have a hall of fame without the all-time home run and hit leaders. Poor Pete Rose is going to be shunned until the day he dies and they will let him within months after, just watch.” We will just have to wait and see.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

4. Before the Rules

“Pete Rose goes in as a player only. All steroid-era players go in. There were no rules about it. Any player who received a suspension does not. There were rules, and they broke them.” OldTimerNubbins makes the case plain and simple. His point about Rose is definitely an interesting one because it’s difficult to argue that his gambling negatively affected his player performances considering his ludicrous number of records.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

Even if he entered with an asterisk, it might satiate the demands of some fans who think the whole thing is just stupid. Furthermore, the fact that PED use wasn’t properly regulated before the Mitchell Report suggests that these players should be in the clear. When players clearly violate rules it is definitely a different story because the rules are then set in place.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

3. Tarnished Sport

“Sit with a person who thinks Rose shouldn’t be in the HOF long enough because he gambled on baseball and it “tarnishes” a sport, a sport that didn’t allow players of a certain skin color to play for several decades, and you’ll learn the definition of context,” Playingwithfire said. In 1959, the Boston Red Sox became the final team to integrate black players into their team.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

It’s curious how the league makes a big deal out of certain issues and not others. MLB finally integrated Negro League statistics in 2020 but there are a lot more issues in this sport. It’s fair to say that the reaction toward Rose and his gambling may be one of the most disproportionate in baseball history. But it doesn’t look like it will change anytime in the near future.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

2. Not a Care in the World

“Does Pete really want in though? Sometimes I think he likes the controversy it drums up. It was sad to see the Reds be forced to ask for special permission to honor him before a game but hilarious they decided to hold the ceremony at a local casino,” Cracker_please asked. There is a case to be made that Rose accepts and even enjoys the notoriety at this point.

Mandatory Credit: Sports Illustrated

He still has many fans who reckon that he should be in the Hall of Fame but it’s unlikely during his lifetime. As we alluded to earlier, he is a controversial character outside of the field so it’s not against the realms of possibility that he simply doesn’t care. But it shouldn’t be about what any individual wants. At the end of the day, the record books speak for themselves and perhaps should be taken seriously.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

1. Scapegoats

Jeff Luhnow and A.J. Hinch were the main scapegoats of the Houston Astros scandal. Houston fired the pair after MLB suspended them but this discounted the role the players played. However, the athletes themselves didn’t suffer any personal punishment. Furthermore, their World Series wins remain on their records. Many fans believe that this is nothing short of an outrage.

Mandatory Credit: USA TODAY Sports

“The manager admitted to knowing about it and not being willing to directly stop it (he says he broke the monitor a couple of times to try and get them to stop) but everything else was the players,” Feintise argued. “The rationale for not punishing the players is that’s it too hard to figure out exactly who was part of it and who wasn’t, but honestly, I have a hard time believing that not all of them knew about it.”

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